[NORCAL50]

TL;DR: Upon further investigation, it just stalls only when in gear, when engine braking, and the problem is accelerated when actually using the brakes or going downhill. Usually stalls out between 0mph and 7mph ish. Whenever throttle is applied it will not stall, and it runs great except for when coming to a stop.

VIDEOS:

Video of it stalling without even moving: 20220801_201940_1.mp4​

Video of it stalling when coming to a stop from 25mph: 20220801_181048_1.mp4​

MORE DETAILS:

• Stalls with or without KEBC installed. After removing the KEBC it likes to stall out right around the same time the engine braking wants to disengage.
• Stalling occurred with the old and new CVT belt. New belt deflection was measured at 24.5mm w/ 10lbs of applied force on belt.
• I cannot get it to stall for the life of me when the ATV isn't warmed up. Symptoms begin after being completely warmed up.
• Idle RPM in neutral when cold averages 1250RPM (avg.) then when warmed up it drops down to 1180RPM (avg.). Have seen it drop as low as 1080RPM.
• Weird noise comes from CVT when engine braking only (no throttle & no handlebar brakes) specifically around 7mph, almost every time. Attached here is a video of the noise... 20220801_180939_1.mp4 (Noise remained immediately after removing KEBC, although later test drives the sound substantially decreased and at times was non-existent).
• Has new Uni air filter + oiled w/ Uni spray oil. This combined with the removed KEBC has made it a tad harder to stall although it still does.
• Leak Down Test Results: Cylinder 1 (Front) - 2% Leakage & Cylinder 2 (Rear) - 1% Leakage. Is it just me, or is this suspiciously good for 5,000 miles.
• Will not stall in Neutral. Stalls in R, H, L.
• During our most recent winter I installed a brand new OEM Vehicle Down Sensor, which was also the culprit of it stalling out. Symptoms were way different than this though.
• I found this problem when I was traversing very steep rocky mountains up in northern California, and when going downhill it was stalling a lot because I'd be at idle a lot but still need to give it gas on occasion.

UPDATE 08/07/22 CVT CLUTCH INSPECTION RESULTS:

• Primary Clutch Cover Bushing I.D. (28.18mm Actual) (28.12mm Max Service Limit)
• Primary Clutch Spring Free Length (77.4mm Actual) (77.0mm Standard)
• Gap between shoe & post (Up to 0.20mm Standard)
  • At balancing arrow: 0.46mm
  • One space clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.46mm
  • Two spaces clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.54mm
  • Three spaces clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.58mm
• Stalls in neutral with primary clutch removed.

 

[NORCAL50]

Updated with more information.

 

[NMKAWIERIDER]

I'll have some ideas when I have the time to read all you have there.

 

[NORCAL50]

I'll have some ideas when I have the time to read all you have there.

Okay, thanks in advance for your time.

This one just really stumped me so I tried to give as much info about the problem as possible.

 

[NMKAWIERIDER]

From the videos and your statement that it doesn't stall in neutral only in drive gears it acts like the primary engages and doesn't let go..like the flyweights are binding and from what I hear in the videos, the shoes are very loose so I vote you pull the primary and clean and inspect it closely. Start it with it off and see how it acts. Also ensure the belt deflection is between 23-27mm cold. Also, the 2012s and many 2013s had the new revised clutches with the quick tip-in ramping. This was to help with the slipping and wear on take-off that the old ones had but it also ment two things-one that engagement on these were a bit like popping the clutch on a manual transmission car and two, they did sometimes have a problem releasing at that low end RPM especially if it was idling faster then it should. They fixed that on the 2014+s. If you have one of these...and I suslect you do, it must be in premium shape all the time and the engine must idle normally...and Kawasaki has had a problem with the IAC Valves.

 

[NORCAL50]

From the videos and your statement that it doesn't stall in neutral only in drive gears it acts like the primary engages and doesn't let go..like the flyweights are binding and from what I hear in the videos, the shoes are very loose so I vote you pull the primary and clean and inspect it closely. Start it with it off and see how it acts. Also ensure the belt deflection is between 23-27mm cold. Also, the 2012s and many 2013s had the new revised clutches with the quick tip-in ramping. This was to help with the slipping and wear on take-off that the old ones had but it also ment two things-one that engagement on these were a bit like popping the clutch on a manual transmission car and two, they did sometimes have a problem releasing at that low end RPM especially if it was idling faster then it should. They fixed that on the 2014+s. If you have one of these...and I suslect you do, it must be in premium shape all the time and the engine must idle normally...and Kawasaki has had a problem with the IAC Valves.

OPTIONAL READING:
Belt deflection was 24.5mm cold. Also I saw the video of your CVT noise in a different post, mine makes the same noise and it's even worse with the cover off just didn't know what it was until now.

When I pull it off again I'll make sure:

1. Gap between shoe & post (<0.20mm)
2. Cover bushing I.D. (27.99mm - 28.12mm)
3. Primary spring free length (77.0mm)
4. Feel primary and secondary sheave surfaces for divots and abnormalities?

QUESTIONS:

1. How would I check the "ramp weight bushing" aka flyweight bushing? Not sure what to look for, just that the flyweight moves smoothly?
2. Anything else I should check while I'm in there, that could cause the flyweights to stick out at low rpm?

 

[NMKAWIERIDER]

Just pull it and service it. Clean it completely...pull all the flyweight pins-be carfull not to over tighten them when reinstalling, they snap the threads off easy. Just snug..no more. Look for any wear on the ramps and the rollers...anything weird. Use NO lube- not even any dry lube...on anything.

 

[NORCAL50]

Just pull it and service it. Clean it completely...pull all the flyweight pins-be carfull not to over tighten them when reinstalling, they snap the threads off easy. Just snug..no more. Look for any wear on the ramps and the rollers...anything weird. Use NO lube- not even any dry lube...on anything.

TL;DR: Just read the bold, red text. Suspect Idle Speed Control and primary clutch both attribute to the issue. What do you think? Also, where the ISC? Service manual wasn't much help.

MEASUREMENTS TAKEN FROM PRIMARY CLUTCH:

*Followed procedure in the service manual down to the last detail, including all torque specs during re-assembly, except for disassembling spider. Mitutoyo calipers (gold standard) used for all measurements, including verifying true feeler gauge thickness.

• Gap between shoe & post (Up to 0.20mm Standard)
  • At balancing arrow: 0.46mm
  • One space clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.46mm
  • Two spaces clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.54mm
  • Three spaces clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.58mm
• Primary Clutch Cover Bushing I.D. (28.18mm Actual) (28.12mm Max Service Limit)
• Primary Clutch Spring Free Length (77.4mm Actual) (77.0mm Standard)

VISUAL AND PHYSICAL INSPECTION OF PRIMARY CLUTCH:

• Fixed sheave has visible and tangible surface imperfections (aka groove), near the low RPM range, possibly due to low end belt slippage. Movable sheave less severe, but still showed similar symptoms. Neither sheave was rough in texture across the full surface. Used scotchbrite and removed the glazing leaving sheaves w/ a cross-hatch pattern. Click Here For Images.
• Flyweights (aka ramp weights) all have a smooth surface across their entire surface that is in contact with the spider rollers. Some side to side play was apparent, but all flyweights moved smoothly across their normal range of motion. Large amount of crud in the flyweight bearings, removed crud w/ alcohol and q-tip. Click Here For Image.
• The shaft that the belt rides on had caked on dirt underneath the movable sheave bearing (located where the movable sheave bearing normally sits at idle), but after dirt removal, shaft was smooth. Click Here For Image.
• Very easy for dust to get in the CVT housing. Even after one ride it's very apparent that new dust has entered the housing from external sources. New CVT cover gasket + clean metal mating surface?
• Spider rollers have very little up and down play, and roll smoothly.
• Managed to stall the ATV in neutral with the primary clutch removed. I'm assuming the large mass acted as momentum to keep the engine running. Either way, it sort of runs like crap at idle with the primary removed. Now that I come to think of it, it kinda runs like this even with the primary installed, just not as bad so I thought nothing of it. Click Here For Video.
• After cleaning the primary clutch, and re-assembly per service manual torque specs. The clutch sounded the same, and seemed to run smoothly. Click Here For Video.
• Then I test drove it, and after driving it for a few minutes, I noticed the CVT sounded a lot worse. After returning home, here is how the primary sounded. Click Here For Video. (NOTE: The awful sound went away upon removing primary clutch, but I suppose the sound could have been coming from the secondary in hindsight. Will try and figure it out tomorrow.)

TL;DR: Just read the bold, red text. Suspect Idle Speed Control and primary clutch both attribute to the issue. What do you think? Also, where the ISC? Service manual wasn't much help.

 

[NORCAL50]

Also, totally off topic, but this is leaking. Pretty sure it's Kawasaki Part #: 92066-1289. Service manual also calls for a liquid gasket on the darn plug. Except it's $65+ that I'm not spending. Permatex Ultra Grey a decent alternative?

Now really sure how to fix it? Also not sure what I'd do without you NMK but I digress. Thanks a lot

 

[NMKAWIERIDER]

Also, totally off topic, but this is leaking. Pretty sure it's Kawasaki Part #: 92066-1289. Service manual also calls for a liquid gasket on the darn plug. Except it's $65+ that I'm not spending. Permatex Ultra Grey a decent alternative?

Now really sure how to fix it? Also not sure what I'd do without you NMK but I digress. Thanks a lot

View attachment 8658

On the cam plug mine also started that. I cleaned and flushed all the oil off and out of the grove very well with BrakeKlean several times and dryed it with some compressed air from a distance. Then used the high temp red RTV and my finger to force it around the plug, wiped all the extra off so all you could see was just a thin red ring and let it sit over night. Fixed. Never leaked again. Do check the cap bolts for proper torque though.

 

[NORCAL50]

On the cam plug mine also started that. I cleaned and flushed all the oil off and out of the grove very well with BrakeKlean several times and dryed it with some compressed air from a distance. Then used the high temp red RTV and my finger to force it around the plug, wiped all the extra off so all you could see was just a thin red ring and let it sit over night. Fixed. Never leaked again. Do check the cap bolts for proper torque though.

Noted on the camshaft plug. Seems like an easy enough fix.

Any thoughts on this though? Thanks again!

TL;DR: Just read the bold, red text. Suspect Idle Speed Control and primary clutch both attribute to the issue. What do you think? Also, where the ISC? Service manual wasn't much help.

MEASUREMENTS TAKEN FROM PRIMARY CLUTCH:

*Followed procedure in the service manual down to the last detail, including all torque specs during re-assembly, except for disassembling spider. Mitutoyo calipers (gold standard) used for all measurements, including verifying true feeler gauge thickness.

• Gap between shoe & post (Up to 0.20mm Standard)
  • At balancing arrow: 0.46mm
  • One space clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.46mm
  • Two spaces clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.54mm
  • Three spaces clockwise from balancing arrow: 0.58mm
• Primary Clutch Cover Bushing I.D. (28.18mm Actual) (28.12mm Max Service Limit)
• Primary Clutch Spring Free Length (77.4mm Actual) (77.0mm Standard)

VISUAL AND PHYSICAL INSPECTION OF PRIMARY CLUTCH:

• Fixed sheave has visible and tangible surface imperfections (aka groove), near the low RPM range, possibly due to low end belt slippage. Movable sheave less severe, but still showed similar symptoms. Neither sheave was rough in texture across the full surface. Used scotchbrite and removed the glazing leaving sheaves w/ a cross-hatch pattern. Click Here For Images.
• Flyweights (aka ramp weights) all have a smooth surface across their entire surface that is in contact with the spider rollers. Some side to side play was apparent, but all flyweights moved smoothly across their normal range of motion. Large amount of crud in the flyweight bearings, removed crud w/ alcohol and q-tip. Click Here For Image.
• The shaft that the belt rides on had caked on dirt underneath the movable sheave bearing (located where the movable sheave bearing normally sits at idle), but after dirt removal, shaft was smooth. Click Here For Image.
• Very easy for dust to get in the CVT housing. Even after one ride it's very apparent that new dust has entered the housing from external sources. New CVT cover gasket + clean metal mating surface?
• Spider rollers have very little up and down play, and roll smoothly.
• Managed to stall the ATV in neutral with the primary clutch removed. I'm assuming the large mass acted as momentum to keep the engine running. Either way, it sort of runs like crap at idle with the primary removed. Now that I come to think of it, it kinda runs like this even with the primary installed, just not as bad so I thought nothing of it. Click Here For Video.
• After cleaning the primary clutch, and re-assembly per service manual torque specs. The clutch sounded the same, and seemed to run smoothly. Click Here For Video.
• Then I test drove it, and after driving it for a few minutes, I noticed the CVT sounded a lot worse. After returning home, here is how the primary sounded. Click Here For Video. (NOTE: The awful sound went away upon removing primary clutch, but I suppose the sound could have been coming from the secondary in hindsight. Will try and figure it out tomorrow.)

TL;DR: Just read the bold, red text. Suspect Idle Speed Control and primary clutch both attribute to the issue. What do you think? Also, where the ISC? Service manual wasn't much help.